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Its like by wybieramnoclegwybieramnocleg, 21 Nov 2016 19:08
George (guest) 31 Dec 2015 18:37
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

WHEN WILL THE RAPTURE TAKE PLACE?

When will the rapture take place? Will it be the pre tribulation or Will it be pre wrath? Let's go to scripture shall we! Matthew 24:29-31/ 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 6:12/ 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; In the 6th seal revelation 6:12 says that the sun is turned as black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. This is the very same thing that happens in Matthew 24:29 were the sun was darkened and the moon did not give its light, so we know that Matthew 24:29 was talking of the 6th seal. So let's see the whole deal. Matthew 24:29-31 is means "Immediately after the tribulation of those days(1260 days) the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light (6th seal) and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trump and they shall gather together his elect… After in Matthew 24:31 Jesus says that the elect will we gathered by a sound of a trump. Revelation 11:18/ 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Notice this is talking about after the seventh trumpet happened. That means this proofs a post tribulation, and disprove a pre tribulation. Before verse 18, in verse 15 the seventh trumpet blew. How could Christ reward us after the 7th trumpet blew, if we were at heaven just prior to the tribulation? 1 john 3:2/ 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 is saying that we don't know how we will be like but we will be like our lord Jesus Christ when he APPEARS. When does the Lord Jesus Christ appear? He appears at his second coming.Revelation 7:9-14/ 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in. Notice this great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. So that means, that the elect(the church) who are gathered by the Angels in Matthew 24:29-31 are the same once as the great multitude seen in revelation 7:9-14, since the elect are gathered at the 6th seal, which in revelation 7:9-14 the great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. This perfectly matches a post tribulation rapture and proofs the pre tribulation rapture is false. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18/ 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. We see that Paul is saying the We that remain unto the coming of the lord shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the lord in the air. When is the coming of the Lord? After the tribulation. Mark 13:24-27/ 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Again we know that when the sun shall be darkened and the moon not give her light will happen at the 6th seal. Mark 13:24-27 is identical to Matthew 24:29-31. How could Angels gather us the elect (the church) after the tribulation, when we were gathered just prior to the tribulation? Matthew 24:5-6/ 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. What Jesus is trying to say is that many shall come in the name of Christ and say "I am Christ" and shall deceive many, but THE END IS NOT YET. So because of this i believe of a possibility of their being a false pre tribulation rapture we a false Christ comes and deceives many. Now I find something very intresting. This is that when Jesus said that many shall claim to be Christ and deceived many, after he said the there would be wars and rumors of wars. That perfectly fits the first two seals. Revelation 6:2-4/ 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. The first horse rider is seen as one who rides in a white horse with a crown of gold. We also see Jesus Christ riding a white horse and wearing crowns of Gold. So I believe this represents is the false messiah(antichrist) who says according to Matthew "I am Christ" and deceives many. The second horse rider of revelation is mentioned as one that has a great sword, in a red dragon, and again I believe this represents according to Matthew the wars and rumors of wars. So let's see the whole deal. Matthew 24:5-6 "for many shall come in my name saying "I am Christ" and shall deceive many(1st seal) and ye shall hear wars and rumors of wars(2nd seal). Now what is causing these pre tribulation supporters to believe in this deception? Revelation 3:10/ 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The part underlined is where pre tribulation supporters look at. Even if we don't know what this verse means, we know that this verse cannot support a pre tribulation rapture since scripture can't contradict itself. Another thing the pre tribulation supporters use for their evidence is the 24 elders. Revelation 4:4/ 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Some things the pre tribulation supporters use as evidence this is the church age is that they seat on 24 seats(thrones) and were crowns of Gold in their head. Well it is true that old testament saints were never promised crowns of Gold, or thrones, and we church saints are, but it would be wrong to assume that these are church age saints. There were some Israelites who wear faithful to God such as King David. Some rewards are mentioned in the scriptures of what we will receive, but there is much more we don't know. And we know this can't either of support the pre tribulation rapture, because scriptures cannot contradict itself, plus what better matches the rapture of the church is the great multitude of revelation 7. Remember the sun shall be darkened, and the moon into blood in the 6th seal. Now notice that it says "before the Lord comes". We know that the 6th seal is after the tribulation, so this proofs both the pre wrath and post tribulation. So I agree with both post tribulation and pre wrath rapture. The pre wrath rapture position is after the tribulation however before God's wrath. So let's see the whole deal. Acts 2:29 is trying to say "the sun shall turn into darkness, and the moon into blood (6th seal), before that great and notable day of the Lord (God's wrath) come. Joel 2:31/ 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel is again as did others scriptures talking of the 6th seal. So now that we've gone into scripture we know that the post tribulation- pre wrath rapture, however we know that the pre tribulation rapture is false.

by George (guest), 31 Dec 2015 18:37
George (guest) 31 Dec 2015 00:32
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

WHEN WILL THE RAPTURE TAKE PLACE?

When will the rapture take place? Will it be the pre tribulation or Will it be pre wrath? Let's go to scripture shall we! Matthew 24:29-31/ 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 6:12/ 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; In the 6th seal revelation 6:12 says that the sun is turned as black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. This is the very same thing that happens in Matthew 24:29 were the sun was darkened and the moon did not give its light, so we know that Matthew 24:29 was talking of the 6th seal. So let's see the whole deal. Matthew 24:29-31 is means "Immediately after the tribulation of those days(1260 days) the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light (6th seal) and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trump and they shall gather together his elect… After in Matthew 24:31 Jesus says that the elect will we gathered by a sound of a trump. Revelation 11:18/ 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Notice this is talking about after the seventh trumpet happened. That means this proofs a post tribulation, and disprove a pre tribulation. Before verse 18, in verse 15 the seventh trumpet blew. How could Christ reward us after the 7th trumpet blew, if we were at heaven just prior to the tribulation? 1 john 3:2/ 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 is saying that we don't know how we will be like but we will be like our lord Jesus Christ when he APPEARS. When does the Lord Jesus Christ appear? He appears at his second coming.Revelation 7:9-14/ 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in. Notice this great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. So that means, that the elect(the church) who are gathered by the Angels in Matthew 24:29-31 are the same once as the great multitude seen in revelation 7:9-14, since the elect are gathered at the 6th seal, which in revelation 7:9-14 the great multitude came to heaven at the 6th seal. This perfectly matches a post tribulation rapture and proofs the pre tribulation rapture is false. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18/ 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. We see that Paul is saying the We that remain unto the coming of the lord shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the lord in the air. When is the coming of the Lord? After the tribulation. Mark 13:24-27/ 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Again we know that when the sun shall be darkened and the moon not give her light will happen at the 6th seal. Mark 13:24-27 is identical to Matthew 24:29-31. How could Angels gather us the elect (the church) after the tribulation, when we were gathered just prior to the tribulation? Matthew 24:5-6/ 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. What Jesus is trying to say is that many shall come in the name of Christ and say "I am Christ" and shall deceive many, but THE END IS NOT YET. So because of this i believe of a possibility of their being a false pre tribulation rapture we a false Christ comes and deceives many. Now I find something very intresting. This is that when Jesus said that many shall claim to be Christ and deceived many, after he said the there would be wars and rumors of wars. That perfectly fits the first two seals. Revelation 6:2-4/ 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. The first horse rider is seen as one who rides in a white horse with a crown of gold. We also see Jesus Christ riding a white horse and wearing crowns of Gold. So I believe this represents is the false messiah(antichrist) who says according to Matthew "I am Christ" and deceives many. The second horse rider of revelation is mentioned as one that has a great sword, in a red dragon, and again I believe this represents according to Matthew the wars and rumors of wars. So let's see the whole deal. Matthew 24:5-6 "for many shall come in my name saying "I am Christ" and shall deceive many(1st seal) and ye shall hear wars and rumors of wars(2nd seal). Now what is causing these pre tribulation supporters to believe in this deception? Revelation 3:10/ 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The part underlined is where pre tribulation supporters look at. Even if we don't know what this verse means, we know that this verse cannot support a pre tribulation rapture since scripture can't contradict itself. "Keep thee" in this verse does not mean "take thee". So if this verse really does support the pre tribulation rapture, then why didn't John simply write in revelation "because thou hast kept my word of patience, I will also TAKE THEE from the hour of temptation… What ever John is referring to as "keep thee" it either means "protect thee" or "GAURD thee" because it cannot be a pre tribulation rapture. If this verse was supporting the pre tribulation position, then it would say "caught up in the clouds", "gather the elect", or "take thee" as other verses such as Matthew 24:29-31 use. Another thing the pre tribulation supporters use for their evidence is the 24 elders. Revelation 4:4/ 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Some things the pre tribulation supporters use as evidence this is the church age is that they seat on 24 seats(thrones) and were crowns of Gold in their head. Well it is true that old testament saints were never promised crowns of Gold, or thrones, and we church saints are, but it would be wrong to assume that these are church age saints. There were some Israelites who wear faithful to God such as King David. Some rewards are mentioned in the scriptures of what we will receive, but there is much more we don't know. And we know this can't either of support the pre tribulation rapture, because scriptures cannot contradict itself, plus what better matches the rapture of the church is the great multitude of revelation 7. Remember the sun shall be darkened, and the moon into blood in the 6th seal. Now notice that it says "before the Lord comes". We know that the 6th seal is after the tribulation, so this proofs both the pre wrath and post tribulation. So I agree with both post tribulation and pre wrath rapture. The pre wrath rapture position is after the tribulation however before God's wrath. So let's see the whole deal. Acts 2:29 is trying to say "the sun shall turn into darkness, and the moon into blood (6th seal), before that great and notable day of the Lord (God's wrath) come. Joel 2:31/ 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel is again as did others scriptures talking of the 6th seal. So now that we've gone into scripture we know that the post tribulation- pre wrath rapture, however we know that the pre tribulation rapture is false.

by George (guest), 31 Dec 2015 00:32
George (guest) 28 Nov 2015 02:20
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

Why does the bible call us to be perfect although it seem impossible ?

This question is quiet a question with a lot of deception people teach about it. Believe it or not Biblical perfection of a person is not being sinless but in other words being pure holy and pure Godly. A perfect person would still fall to sin but it would not be as a life style choice nor will it be like the sin separates this perfect person from a relation ship with God. The sin will not cause the person to abandon God. The person will confess the sin he or she committed, and will continue to live a righteous life. This perfection is declared to very faithful men such as Abraham, Job, and Noah are all declared to be perfect people who walked with God, who were pure holy and pure Godly, and yet never mentioned as sinless. Think about great people such as king David and Moses. King David was a pure Godly and pure holy and yet he sins in the bible. Look at Moses who was also pure Godly and pure holy, and yet he sinned against God, and was not permitted to enter the promise land. Jesus was the only and will be the only in the sinless perfection, until we go to heaven and get heavenly Bodies.

by George (guest), 28 Nov 2015 02:20
George (guest) 28 Nov 2015 02:10
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

Is the pre tribulation rapture biblical.

We must look at scripture to proof whether this is false or true.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory".31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

please go to Matthew 24 verses 29 to 31. I underlined important context clues. So " Matthew has told us using context clues " Immediately after the tribulation, The son of man ( Jesus Christ) will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they will gather together the elect (faithful humans). As you see I didn't use the whole verse but the important parts that proof the post rapture and disprove the pre rapture. I call this context underlining. Notice how Matthew says immediately after the tribulation of those days.

24 But in those days, AFTER THIS TRIBULATION, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part off heaven.

Please go to mark 13 verses 24 to 27. This is very similar to what Matthew said. Again I did context underlining because we don't need every information for the rapture view such as the moon will no give her light exedra exedra. Mark is saying "after this tribulation, The son of man ( Jesus Christ) shall send his angels and gather his elect( faithful humans)". Notice how mark uses after the tribulation. These verses proof the post rib rapture

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Please go to 1 Thessalonians 4 verses 15 to 18. I once again used context underlining for the same reason as before. Paul is simply saying "we who are alive at the coming of the Lord( Jesus Christ) will be caught up together in the clues, and will meet the lord in the air." This once again proof the post trib rapture and disproves pre trib rapture.

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Please go to revelation 7 verses 9 to 14. This is what John of Patmos is saying" After this ( meaning they were not there before) I saw a great multitude which have came out of great tribulation". If this supports the pre trib rapture view, then there claim about the 24 elders representing the church is false. Second, revelation says " they came out of great tribulation" meaning they were on earth during tribulation, it does not mean escape.this supports the post trib rapture view once again.

8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day - and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Please Go to 2 Timothy 4 verse 8. This is what Paul says. "The lord, will award me on that day the crown of righteousness".Notice how Paul says On that day. He is referring to the coming of the lord, so if we there is a pre trib rapture why does Paul say he will earn this crown on the day of the lord. This once again supports the post trib rapture.

Note: The bible talks of Jesus having a second coming back to earth, therefore how is that possible if Jesus Christ come before tribulation and beers all believers to heaven? Then there would be a third coming. That's just calling Jesus Christ a lier by saying HE WILL COME IN THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE, when he said he would have a second coming not third.

Note: since the great multitude represents the the post trib rapture, then the 24 elders must be Old Testament saints.

Conclusion: I hope I have proved to you that the pre trib rapture does not match with scripture but the post trib rapture does. the scriptures proof also a second coming therefore if Jesus Christ came to take believers during the pre trib, then it would be a third coming.

by George (guest), 28 Nov 2015 02:10
George (guest) 28 Nov 2015 02:06
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

Is the pre tribulation rapture biblical.

We must look at scripture to proof whether this is false or true.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory".31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

please go to Matthew 24 verses 29 to 31. I underlined important context clues. So " Matthew has told us using context clues " Immediately after the tribulation, The son of man ( Jesus Christ) will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they will gather together the elect (faithful humans). As you see I didn't use the whole verse but the important parts that proof the post rapture and disprove the pre rapture. I call this context underlining. Notice how Matthew says immediately after the tribulation of those days.

24 But in those days, AFTER THIS TRIBULATION, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part off heaven.

Please go to mark 13 verses 24 to 27. This is very similar to what Matthew said. Again I did context underlining because we don't need every information for the rapture view such as the moon will no give her light exedra exedra. Mark is saying "after this tribulation, The son of man ( Jesus Christ) shall send his angels and gather his elect( faithful humans)". Notice how mark uses after the tribulation. These verses proof the post rib rapture

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Please go to 1 Thessalonians 4 verses 15 to 18. I once again used context underlining for the same reason as before. Paul is simply saying "we who are alive at the coming of the Lord( Jesus Christ) will be caught up together in the clues, and will meet the lord in the air." This once again proof the post trib rapture and disproves pre trib rapture.

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Please go to revelation 7 verses 9 to 14. This is what John of Patmos is saying" After this ( meaning they were not there before) I saw a great multitude which have came out of great tribulation". If this supports the pre trib rapture view, then there claim about the 24 elders representing the church is false. Second, revelation says " they came out of great tribulation" meaning they were on earth during tribulation, it does not mean escape.this supports the post trib rapture view once again.

8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day - and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Please Go to 2 Timothy 4 verse 8. This is what Paul says. "The lord, will award me on that day the crown of righteousness".Notice how Paul says On that day. He is referring to the coming of the lord, so if we there is a pre trib rapture why does Paul say he will earn this crown on the day of the lord. This once again supports the post trib rapture.

Note: The bible talks of Jesus having a second coming back to earth, therefore how is that possible if Jesus Christ come before tribulation and beers all believers to heaven? Then there would be a third coming. That's just calling Jesus Christ a lier by saying HE WILL COME IN THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE, when he said he would have a second coming not third.

Note: since the great multitude represents the the post trib rapture, then the 24 elders must be Old Testament saints.

Conclusion: I hope I have proved to you that the pre trib rapture does not match with scripture but the post trib rapture does. the scriptures proof also a second coming therefore if Jesus Christ came to take believers during the pre trib, then it would be a third coming.

by George (guest), 28 Nov 2015 02:06
Fag (guest) 27 Nov 2015 22:27
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

God Doesnt Exist

by Fag (guest), 27 Nov 2015 22:27
George (guest) 12 Oct 2015 23:40
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

Th church is looking right now for prophets, when they also need saints. A prophet is God's inspired teacher whom God counts on to add new concepects Of God, such as prophesying biblical events that must take place in the future and also new teachings God adds to the church. A saint means someone who is holy, and righteous. The church in this days needs to learn more about God but the church needs more hollyness there is so much deception in this days, it is more important to keep the church holy, than teach new things to the church. We need the church to be full of perfect people in God's sight which worship him properly, than adding new features the church need to learn about God. I find myself as a saint but that does not make a prophet worst. Because if it wasn't for Moses God would not be known well and, then no one would believe on what Prophet Isaiah said, then no one would believe on what prophet Daniel said, then no one would believe on Jesus Christ our lord because without people knowing God Jehovah as their God then people wouldn't be live that Jesus Christ was and is and is to come as the lord and savior of the world As the messiah because they woulnt know who a messiah was since no one would be believers of God.

by George (guest), 12 Oct 2015 23:40
Jorge (guest) 23 Sep 2015 20:51
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

Although I rather be a both I find myself as a saint. People it is not you who chooses but God does. A saint is God's faithful one meanwhile a prophet is God's Inspired wise teacher. If God sends you a message and you are a prophet but want to be saint then you are acting in rebellion againts God. So it's God choice. God does not choose saints it is saints who choose to be saints because God chose them to be saints. i am not talking of Catholic saints but True saints. People please understand that both saints and prophets would be both kings and priest. A prophet is Gods professional inspired speaker and a saint is gods freind.

by Jorge (guest), 23 Sep 2015 20:51
John (guest) 22 Sep 2015 22:54
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Saints and Prophets

Neither of them are better because A saint is a faithful offender againts Satan mean while a prophet is a faithful defender. Without a saint the church would not grow bigger and without a prophet Satan would enter the church and turn it to a satanic church. We need both because a prophet shares its prophetic gift to the church given by Jesus Christ mean while a saint helps expand the church to grow bigger and bigger by the name of Jesus Christ. But who leads the church? Prophet or saint? The answer is very difficult. I don't know who God chooses but in my opinion a Prophet would be the leader, because think about it if, you don't have a saint the church can't grow bigger mean while without a prophet Satan would enter the church. A prophet shares its prophetic gift so Satan could be locked. I would rather protect the church than preach about Satan because if Satan enters the church then people would be try to preach the word of Satan instead of the word of God which is being deceived. I'd rather not preach than preach things related to Satan agin I say because I would be a saint of Satan. So if the church wouldn't grow any bigger a prophet can still share its prophetic gift with someone. So Yeah I would rather be a prophet but it's God who chooses so if God sends me a prophetic gift then all share it with the church

by John (guest), 22 Sep 2015 22:54
Michelle (guest) 05 Jun 2015 19:42
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Christian Prayer Beads

AMEN, James!

by Michelle (guest), 05 Jun 2015 19:42
Michelle (guest) 05 Jun 2015 19:40
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Christian Prayer Beads

Let me be clear - I am a Christian, who firmly believes the Bible is the word of God, that believing that we are saved from eternal death by Jesus dying on the cross and raising from the dead, that Jesus is the only way to heaven and that I NEED no other person, words or device to make sure I get into the Kingdom.

However, I have read your pamphlet, Mr. Kidd, and I believe that you offer the information set forth in a humble manner with only the goal of helping followers of Christ have a better prayer life. I have studied on the matter of prayers beads, and I must say that they can be used in the wrong way. The pharisees themselves used repetitive prayers and outward signs to show others how "pious" they were. Jesus himself said in Matthew 6:7:"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." A believer must understand all of the things I said before, before one can successfully use the prayer beads in personal prayer life, which you, Mr. Kidd, have made clear on every turn. You have made clear the only way to heaven is Jesus, and there is nothing else necessary.

As I mentioned I have done quite a bit of research and reading on the origin of prayer beads, how and why they're used. I understand that using these beads is not mentioned in the bible, but that doesn't make them wrong or a sin. Devotional books are not mentioned in the bible either, but they are used daily by many to encourage believers in their attempt to spend more time with God through reading the bible. Prayer beads can work in the same manner with a believer's prayer life. I want to thank you, Mr. Kidd, for all of the information you provided, and I pray for God's blessings on you and yours as you seek to lead others in a more meaningful prayer life.

by Michelle (guest), 05 Jun 2015 19:40
brozyna (guest) 02 Apr 2015 12:16
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Rishikesh Catholic Church

Have you the adress/location of the church? We are going there for easter. At what time was the mass? Thanks

by brozyna (guest), 02 Apr 2015 12:16
billy dycus howard (guest) 10 Dec 2014 05:34
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Rishikesh Catholic Church

Can you please send the location/directions to the Catholic Church?

by billy dycus howard (guest), 10 Dec 2014 05:34
Larry Caskey (guest) 14 Mar 2014 11:29
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Christian Prayer Beads

I read through your little book, you are way off base!!!! Those who believe in prayer beads are being lead astray. Jesus said not to repeat prayer over and over again. I believe this is very dangerous to the new believer. Those who practice this prayer bead ritual will have to answer to God. Who needs beads to pray? It's not in the bible as a Christian practice, so beware of false prophets.

by Larry Caskey (guest), 14 Mar 2014 11:29
crobinson (guest) 03 May 2013 10:16
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » The Difference between Pilgrimage and Tourism

hi hi hi hi

by crobinson (guest), 03 May 2013 10:16
ather farid (guest) 17 Apr 2013 00:27
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Homily for the Nativity of St. John the Forerunner

Respected sir i noticed your writings are the true we should her the voice of the john and see him.i like this very much GOD BLESS YOU,

by ather farid (guest), 17 Apr 2013 00:27
SONG (guest) 18 Feb 2013 14:46
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Rishikesh Catholic Church

Hellow!!
I would like to visit this church, please let know me address..

Thanks many

by SONG (guest), 18 Feb 2013 14:46
Sandeep (guest) 29 Jan 2013 09:33
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Indian Gods, American Gods

'Of course, to either American gods or Indian gods, I prefer the Lord Jesus Christ, Creator, Redeemer, and King of the Universe, to whom alone is due the truest and deepest worship. He is both the Liberator and the reason Liberation is meaningful. By His grace, I am free to respect and learn from the Indian gods, and see in them little fragments of the Gospel. And I pray that one day also I will be freed from the strong invisible shackles of the American gods, that they may be as small as the gods of India, subject also to the all-encompassing Lordship of Jesus Christ, transfigured in the light of His resurrection.'

Classis missionary stuff! really good one!

by Sandeep (guest), 29 Jan 2013 09:33
Sandeep (guest) 29 Jan 2013 08:56
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Self Understandings Of Missionary Work

"Theologian Raimon Panikka"
Mistake, .. again!

by Sandeep (guest), 29 Jan 2013 08:56
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